adsr and lfo abolish

[Ingo Debus]

Martin Czech wrote:
> 
> Ok, it seems I did start a new thread.

Thanks for starting this thread. A very interesting one. I have been
thinking a lot about these questions in the last time.
I've almost always been unhappy with my keyboards because of the lack of
expression (I started playing keyboards about 25 years ago). I got a
Yamaha WX5 MIDI Wind Controller last November because of this.

> It was said that Moog's decision to use a keyboard was the key to success,

Yes, this was back then. But meanwhile we have
guitar/violin/wind/drum/mallet/etc. controllers. The only real advantage
of a piano-style keyboard is that it can be played polyphonically (which
was of no use back then). The Boehm fingering system of a flute or sax
is much more ergonomical than the piano-keyboard fingering.

> and I believe this decision was very influential up to the presence.

True, a very limiting factor of today's synths.

> Nearly all machines have keyboards (or midi) and allow modulation ONLY by
> envelopes or lfos.

Fortunately, that's not true. MIDI instruments can be modulated by MIDI
controllers. The early ones were limited in this aspect, but the newer
aren't. If modulation wasn't possible with MIDI controllers like with
envelope generators a Wind Controller wouldn't make much sense.

> The midi standard was consequenly made to primarily
> transmit key-on, key-off information, well and some controller action,
> we know that there are problems with 7-Bit limitations and bandwidth.

The main problem IMHO is that all controllers are monophonic (except
polyphonic aftertouch). Bandwidth isn't that much of a problem for
frequencies below a few Hz. I noticed some "stepping" with MIDI
controllers sometimes too (when using a foot pedal), but I think that's
due to the synth's slow response, not to MIDI's limited bandwidth
itself. Most times MIDI modulation went fine, even when recorded in a
sequencer program.

> It would
> be possible to store these however, since a few GB don't cost much
> today.

Gigabytes for modulation data? 

> In order to avoid latency time it would be possible to program
> parameters first and then set them into action by a key-on message.
> This would lead to continous control voltages, but would require a midi
> interface that interprets midi information in a quite unusual way.
> 
> I don't think, that such a midi interface is avaiable on the market.

Something similar is available (if I got it right). The Emagic
AMT/Unitor8 is connected to a computer via an interface much faster than
MIDI. The data are transferred from the computer to the interface before
they have to be output though MIDI, along with timing information. The
interface has multiple MIDI Outs, so some bandwidth is gained.

> By the way: are there any controllers (not sysex) with 14 bit resolution
> other then extended pitch bend? I know of none.

Yes, some MIDI controllers may be stacked for 14 bits resolution (#32
and upward).
What do you mean with extended pitch bend? Pitch bend is always 14 bit
(most often controllers don't use all 14 though).

> On the software side it would require a tool (interpolation coding
> software) that translates drawings or other specifications of the
> arbitrary envelopes into interpolation data, in order to feed the midi
> interface.

Have you had a look at the "Hyperedit" feature of Logic (the sequencer
program)?

And Paul Perry wrote:
>I think envelopes generated by rectangular pulses which are
>then deformed by lag ckts

I'd love to have a synth with an envelope generator that does not only
accept rectangular pulses, for my Wind Controller. Like a filter/lag
circuit, but nonlinear, with different Attack and Release settings.
Something like the envelope generators found in compressors or noise
gates. The "artificial" envelope of an ADSR (or something like that) is
one extreme; the pure breath controlled envelope of the Wind Controller
is the other. I'd like to have something in between too.

And Sean Costello wrote:
>Well, a 12 violin section sounds the way it does because there are 12
>violins, and 12 violinists.

And because they are violinists. Anybody ever heard a MIDI violinist?
This certainly can't be done with a keyboard.

>For the envelope, try running the trigger pulse
>through various ringing filters

The "trigger pulse" idea is so strictly keyboard/plucked/drum oriented.
Many acoustic instruments (wind instruments, bowed string instruments)
don't have trigger pulses.


There were many other inspiring thoughts on this thread. Hope there will
be more... :-)


Ingo