AW: motm or doepfer

[jorgen.bergfors at idg.se]

>>Don't make the mistake to think that anything made with high
quality components 
>>sound better than another product made with standard quality
components. You 
>>can just as easily design a crap circuit with the very best
components. Don't 
>>be led to believe that this or that kind of circuit board or pots
make the 
>>module sound better. 

>If you consider the noises from a scratchy potentiometer part of "the
sound" ...

I have ordinary quality potentiometers that are 20 years old and still are not 
scratchy.

>You're right in that some genious can build increadible circuits from
>cheap active components. The EMS VCS3 and the EDP Wasp
>are the best examples. But panel components is a very different story.

>If you solder potentiometers into the pcb and don't fix them at the
>front panel, you'll run into problems sooner or later. The same for
>the use of tiny jacks. Intermittent contacts ar so funny, especially in
>a large modular patch.

Of couse you should mount the pots firmly in the chassis and not just solder 
them to the board! But that has nothing to do with the quality of the pot, has 
it? Even the very best pot will break or work loose if you don't secure it 
using the supplied nut and washer.

>(Disclaimer: I do *not* say that Doepfer *does* use "cheap" or "bad"
>components. It's up to you to decide that. My argument is just that it 
>does make a great difference *if* someone does or not.)

>Crowding a maximum of pots, jacks and switches into minimum panel
>space makes a very bad user interface. It may look impressive, but
>I for one would not like to work with it. 

>(I don't want to be hypocritical: I've run into the same problems myself.
>On my own privat homebuilt stuff, I have some overcrouded modules
>as well. But I find myself using the more generously designed ones
>all the time, and the crowded ones only when I absolutely have to.) 

Well, if it's too big and heavy, it will be awkward to transport to gigs. And 
will be used less for that reason. That's of course fine if you only want to 
use it in the studio or att home and have enough space for it.

>>That's the same scam as the expensive HIFI cables 
>>currently under discussion in this forum.

>No, it is not.
Maybe not for pots, but definitely for PCBs.

>> Which do you think sound best: a two oscillator synth using the MOTM
>> modules or 
>> a four oscillator synth using the Doepfer ones? They're the same cost 
>> (approximately).  
> 
>If oscillator count is all you want, go buy a General Midi module.
>If you want a cheap *analogue* VCO, I can build you one for 1$.
>But don't expect quality, and use alligator clips as an interface.
>Really, if you want decent quality, the mechanical parts make 80%
>of the costs of a module.

Oscillator count was just an example. I'm sure you understand the general idea: 
More modules usually produce a better sound than fewer (up to a point of 
course).

>>If you have unlimited funds, the choice is simple: buy all you want
of the best 
>>quality available. But what if the budget is limited? Wouldn't it
be better to 
>>have more modules, as long as the quality is good enough?

>No. Chances are that you throw the whole thing away after 2 years
>and buy something else, if you are no longer satisfied.
>Buy quality instead, start small, and expand when new money comes in.

Well, in that case you are stuck with a less than satisfactory sound in the 
meantime. And who knows what have happened when you finally have bought 
everyting. Then analog synthesizer sound might not be in demand anymore. 

>The problem is that you have almost zero chance to upgrade a Doepfer
>system to higher quality. You can't just replace the tiny frontpanels 
>with larger ones. You can't just add another potentiometer where a module
>lacks enough input connections. You can't just replace the tiny connectors.
>And believe me you will want to do all this some time.

Nothing mass produced will be exactly the way you want it. Isn't this why we 
want to build our own synths in the first place? The advantage with kits is 
that you can modify and add to them as you build them. Another advantage with 
building your own synth ist that if you have built it, you can certainly repair 
it too. So if one or two pots should need replacing after a copule of years, it 
should be a minor problem. I don't think you should have to replace all of 
them, unless you use really cheap ones.

>Buying cheap is always more expensive in the long run. Do you have an
>idea what people pay these days to get a WASP into usable condition ?
>(New enclosure, new pots ? - just an example.)

The question here was "how good is good enough". Of course too cheap components 
should be avoided.

>>According to my experience with Doepfer products, they are more
>than good 
>>enough.  Remember that the quality of the end product is also
dependent on how 
>>well you assemble it. Bad solder joints is the most common reason
for 
>>malfunctioning electronics devices. So make sure you have a good
soldering iron 
>>and practice some soldering if you want the highest quality.

>So do they sell diy kits again ? Thought they abandoned this long ago.

Well, I have the kits from years ago. I haven't got any of their newer stuff. 

>Don't get me wrong: I have some Doepfer products myself, mostly
>Midi->CV converters, and most of the time they work as they should.
>Some of them were quite unique, and I am sorry that they don't sell these
>affordable interfaces, with individual logic outputs for each key, anymore.
>I have one in my CX-3, and I'd love to have them in similar instruments
>as well. Sad that they abandoned it.

>JH.