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arrgh
<div>I’ve now recapped the whole gate board and the issue is still there.</div>
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<div>When idle (no keys depressed) I can see ~50mV worth of bleeding signals on the output (pin 14) of each gate chip, which I think corresponds to what I’m hearing.</div>
<div>All inputs to the gates are sitting around -8V when not keyed, then individually jumping down to -25V when keyed.</div>
<div>All diodes test OK</div>
<div>All resistors test OK</div>
<div>Ground to sustain ‘lytics is OK</div>
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<div>Do I have 10 toasted TDA0470 chips?</div>
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<div>On Apr 18, 2025, at 6:18 AM, Nathan <nathan@idmclassics.net> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Ah, I think I misunderstood what you meant about no bleed with the top two removed, but still would look at the same things. Would also check the sustain suppression loop very closely, but problems like this on organ gate IC keyboards are usually
caps or bad ICs.
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<div>The Solina I worked on last year pushed me over the edge because it was so frustrating between the age, weight, and design issues - I told my customer I'm never working on one again.</div>
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<div>Nathan</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 10:41 PM Eric Frampton <<a href="mailto:eric@ericframpton.com">eric@ericframpton.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div>There ended up being relatively little flux happening, especially compared to the rest of the boards in this thing. So I went on and ordered a whole pile of new caps and am bracing myself for evening of cap swapping.
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<div>It’ll be epic, I’m sure! Details to follow.</div>
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<div>On Apr 17, 2025, at 12:45 PM, <a href="mailto:tamedogs@wildcats.com" target="_blank">
tamedogs@wildcats.com</a> wrote:</div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The Arp OMNI had a problem where any leakage on the cap would turn the note on. Same TDA0470 circuit in that unit. Those caps are what? 45 - 50 years old? It could be that they have started leaking.
You could change 1 or 2 of them and see if that helps.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Also, could be old dirt and contamination on the PCB. I would try washing the board with isopropyl alcohol first.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Dana<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span>Synth-diy [mailto:<a href="mailto:synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy-bounces@synth-diy.org</a>]<span> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Eric Frampton<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Thursday, April 17, 2025 11:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span> </span>Nathan <<a href="mailto:nathan@idmclassics.net" target="_blank">nathan@idmclassics.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span> </span>SDIY <<a href="mailto:synth-diy@synth-diy.org" target="_blank">synth-diy@synth-diy.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [sdiy] ARP Solina/String Ensemble help?<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<u></u> <u></u></div>
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Hi Nathan,<span> </span><u></u><u></u></div>
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Thanks for pinging me back.<u></u><u></u></div>
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(answers inline)<u></u><u></u></div>
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On Apr 16, 2025, at 5:59 PM, Nathan <<a href="mailto:nathan@idmclassics.net" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">nathan@idmclassics.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div>
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Hi Eric,<span> </span><u></u><u></u></div>
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By "two highest gate ICs" do you mean the 413 and 414 (the highest octave for 4' and 8' respectively)? 413 is only used in the Violin, and 414 in the Viola. <u></u><u></u></div>
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<u></u> <u></u></div>
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Correct.<u></u><u></u></div>
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Since you still get the bleed when only one of those is installed, and presumably if one of those switches is on and the other isn't, then the big thing they have in common are the RC trigger networks ("sustain circuits") for each note before they go to the
gate ICs. If any keys have a bad cap/resistor in the trigger path, or a bad gate IC, then the gates on the chip could stay partially open. Every time you play a key and the main VCA opens, you'll hear that droning. Issues with the sustain voltage or bad caps
on other notes can also interact with that.<u></u><u></u></div>
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I just pulled those two IC’s as an example. There’s note bleeding for any note across the keyboard.<u></u><u></u></div>
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I'd definitely check the caps on that octave. If you check the voltage at the signal side of the 15uF cap for each of those keys, you may find that some are higher than others, or the droning disappears when you probe. <u></u><u></u></div>
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<u></u> <u></u></div>
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I measured voltages at the signal side of all 49 caps, and they’re all sitting right at -6.0V, +/- 0.01V. Hitting the appropriate key drops the voltage to -15V. BUT, if I hit any other key than the one I’m measuring, I can see the voltage on the one I”m measuring
drop to -7 or -8V or so over the span of a couple of seconds. It’s like this, to varying degrees, on the whole keyboard, and playing chords makes the voltage drop faster.<u></u><u></u></div>
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Do I have 49 bad caps?!<u></u><u></u></div>
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Best,<u></u><u></u></div>
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Nathan<u></u><u></u></div>
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On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 2:24 PM Eric Frampton <<a href="mailto:eric@ericframpton.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">eric@ericframpton.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div>
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Hey y’all -<u></u><u></u></div>
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I’m back at my never-ending Solina project, and am down to one last (big) issue.<u></u><u></u></div>
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This is a Series 33, so 1975-ish with the Gate and Trigger jacks in the back and the Chorus switch on the front.<u></u><u></u></div>
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When I play a key, I hear not only the selected waveform from the key, but also some or all (hard to tell) of the other keys droning quietly in the background. If I play multiple keys, the droning is louder. The drones follow the VCA envelope.<u></u><u></u></div>
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If I scope the output for the highest gate chip for the highest 10 notes, and play the top C and work my way downward, I get the waveform for the C down to D# (as you’d expect), then silence/no waveform, then starting at the G (G2?) that is the top of the bass/cello
section, I start getting lower amplitude waveforms all the way to the bottom C.<u></u><u></u></div>
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For troubleshooting, I removed and socketed the two highest gate IC's. If I remove those and do the same test, I get silence on those top 10 notes (as you’d expect), then no added waveforms at all going down the keyboard.<u></u><u></u></div>
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The added waveforms I’m hearing seem to be from the main Gate board, and not the Bass board, based on pitch. They show up in all four 4’ and 8’ sounds (viola, violin, trumpet, horn) but not in the Cello or Bass - those two seem to be fine.<u></u><u></u></div>
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i’ve got trimmer on the Gate board adjusted for 15V. If I lower it (say, to the point of voices not starting to speak), the drones are still there, they’re just lower in volume.<u></u><u></u></div>
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Here’s a link to the schematics: <a href="https://manuals.fdiskc.com/flat/ARP%20Solina%20Schematics.pdf" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://manuals.fdiskc.com/flat/ARP%20Solina%20Schematics.pdf</a><u></u><u></u></div>
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any ideas?<u></u><u></u></div>
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thanks,<u></u><u></u></div>
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